My neighbor, Billie, wants to be baptized. She took all the missionary lessons and loves the church and loves Joseph Smith and has always loved Mormons. She even had a baptismal date set. But then the missionaries gave her a tithing pamphlet. She said, "I just can't pay tithing right now. I'm paying for my grandson's college and am going to put my daughter through nursing school. I want to pay but I can't until I am finished with these obligations." The elders suggested she meet with our Bishop to discuss it. He talked to her for quite awhile and gave her a blessing and she came away not feeling any better because he told her that the windows of heaven would be closed against her if she didn't pay tithing. She kinda dropped out of sight a little bit after that (duh!) and I was gone most of the summer so things fizzled. I finally got ahold of her today and invited her to Stake Conference where Russell M. Nelson will be speaking. She wants to come with me both Saturday evening and Sunday morning so that's good. But she said the reason she hasn't been responding is because she has been really worried and stressed over the "windows of heaven" thing the Bishop told her. I think she thought he meant that she could not get into heaven without paying tithing. Now......my opinion.
I think it would be better for her to be baptized and get the gift of the Holy Ghost and be fellowshipped and slowly gain a testimony of tithing as she learns and grows in the gospel rather than be kept from baptism because of tithing. My reasoning is because I always thought that tithing was not mandatory except to get into the temple. But the tithing pamphlet actually calls it a requirement for baptism. I thought it was supposed to be voluntary. It calls it a duty in the bible dictionary. Home teaching is a duty too and how many people don't do that?! I know people always call it fire insurance because the scriptures say that you will not be burned at His coming if you tithe. But it doesn't say that you WILL be burned if you don't tithe. It says that the wicked and proud will be burned. Are you wicked if you don't pay tithing? I don't think so. If so, there are a lot of wicked people in the church. Also, aren't we all about line upon line and precept upon precept and looking upon the heart and all that? Billie wants to pay but doesn't feel she can right now and I really feel she will in the future if she is baptized and remains active. She is so generous. She gives people on the street money all the time. She has given my kids money for their missions. She even asked me today how Loren is doing on his mission and said she wanted to give him a couple hundred dollars. She helps her grown kids a lot and you can't talk her out of doing that even though they should be on their own. It is not that she is stingy. It is more like she just needs to gain a testimony of the good that tithes and offerings can do within the church. I don't think she will gain that testimony unless she is a member. The ward mission leader and the Bishop have suggested she try it for a few months and see what happens. She doesn't feel she can with her other obligations. I'm a little perplexed because I know she has a good heart and I feel like since baptism is an essential ordinance for entrance into the kingdom of heaven that she shouldn't be kept from it because of tithing. If she can't be a member of the church because she doesn't pay tithing, what about all the members who don't pay? Should they be exed? It just doesn't make sense to me. Any comments?
9 comments:
How do we establish a level of testimony (or worthiness) that qualifies us for baptism? ALL of the commandments are voluntary - we will always have the freedom to choose! I think we need to think more of the church as our practice field - where we are learning & trying to become perfect in all these things.
So...I say "yes" for Billie - she has a testimony & desire in so many essential principles!
-Walt
i'm with you too, shawn. horse first, then cart.
On the other hand...(I've been pondering a lot today!) When we're baptized we make this promise to keep the commandments - that means we shouldn't be "picking & choosing!" We restate that promise each time we partake of the Sacrament.
I think I have decided that I need to have more faith on this matter. I feel like it is my job to love and fellowship Billie and keep trying to get her to church, which she loves. She came to the Sunday session of conference and got to shake hands with Elder Nelson. She was very emotional all the way through the meeting. I had asked Heavenly Father to help her feel the Spirit if she came and I think my prayer was answered. I think I need to leave it in His hands and just do my part. That's how I am feeling after meeting with Elder Nelson--I got a quick one on one with him because Greg was called to be 2nd Counselor in the Stake Presidency. We also had an hour long training meeting with him this morning (the new presidency and their wives). I felt the need to repent and be a better person; not because he made me feel that way. That's just how I felt.
Having met Billy and been on the receiving end of her generosity I find it hard to look at this from an unbiased perspective. I am rooting for her to take the plunge and I think she eventually will. When I look at this situation from a non-personal perspective I think that prospective members need to make that commitment before they are baptized. It shows a level of faith and dedication that should be required of a latter-day saint. However, I don’t think that Christ looks at things this way. I think he looks upon the heart and can see the good that abounds in Billy’s. I think of children who are baptized and wonder if their understanding of tithing is as full as Billy’s. I look at the convert who committed to paying tithing in the discussions and in the interviews but never made an attempt to live that law after they were baptized. My heart tells me that Billy understands the commitment much better than many, and is not struggling with it because of personal greed or fear of the sacrifices she will have to bear because of it. She is struggling with tithing because of the struggles that others will have to face as they are cut off from her gracious supply of gifts. I think she fears to not uphold commitments that she has made to help others. Unfortunately, we have to commit to keep all of the commandments before we can be baptized. And until she can commit to the law of tithing now she shouldn’t be baptized. I think it will be better for her to wait until she can commit than to break that baptismal covenant. Letting her be baptized would require one of us to judge whether her future commitment is genuine. It would also lead to more judgment calls to other potential members. I think this is why we must stick to the book and let Christ be the judge because he is the only one who can judge perfectly. I hope that she changes her mind and puts her trust in the Lord to help her through these difficulties.
one more thought, neither for nor against baptism for billie, but coming from recent experience...
in defense of your bishop:
i've spent the last few years in poor, inner-city wards with a high proportion of converted members. to put it directly, i saw bishops face some major challenges helping members cope with living up to promises they had perhaps made prematurely, sometimes to please well meaning ward members or missionaries, or to speed along a baptism that everyone seemed to think would ease their problems. tithing was a pretty big stumbling block for many people who, i suspect, just stopped paying because they had no real testimony of the sacrifice. (These were often very poor and humble people, for whom staying off church welfare was a big effort). but they believed in god and felt good about joining a church. because of the poverty of these wards, the money for the kind of programs i had always enjoyed and taken for granted just wasn't there. long-time members were stretched to the limit in sacrifices of time and money(not necessarily a bad thing--bim & i definitely got a chance to serve beyond what we were used to) and new members were sometimes a little lost about where they fit in or what was expected of them. as a consequence, we had a pretty long list of inactive members and one branch collapsed because the leadership didn't have enough experience. tom's home teaching list went beyond a dozen families, most of whom we had never seen at church.
from how you describe billie, she seems to have the support and feeling that are required for conversion, so my hesitation for her baptism is pretty small. i was relieved to talk to a missionary in my miami ward, tho, who told me that the mission president there favored slow, sure conversions over hasty ones that relied heavily on untried faith and zeal.
for what it's worth.
I wonder if Nephite era (post coming of Christ) had to commit to pay tithing before they were baptized. Certainly the early saints of this dispensation were not required to, until tithing was instituted. I am also not aware of the tithing commitment being spelled out in any of the scriptures.
Mostly I have little to no testimony about this sort of rule. I understand and can even sympathize with the don't let them be baptized until they demonstrate their faith. However, when I was serving in Italy, I taught people (and correctly so I think) that getting baptized was the step of faith that the Lord asks for.
It is after our baptism by water that we are sanctified by the Holy Ghost, and not before.
How is she going to gain a testimony if she is holding back from the Lord? If she wants to gain it--truly wants to, then she needs to be willing to commit herself to it and make significant sacrifices for it to come. If it were easy to gain a testimony of the Gospel then we would have a much different world, don't you think? Besides, if she is willing to give money to so many, how could she be so unwilling to give it to the Lord? Now I understand if she doesn't believe it goes to Him--just to our church--but this is not a pie plate that we pass around to pay the pastor. These are consecrated funds, and yes, she should believe in that if she is going to become a member of the church.
I think anyone willing to be baptized, to contribute to the community of the church, to make herself a member of the body of Christ, should be welcomed to baptism.
Probably she shouldn't go to the temple if she doesn't want to pay tithing, but I think Mosiah 18:8-10 might be a good guide. Nothing in there about tithing.
Of course, we modern Mormons do a lot of things that aren't in the Book of Mormon (and don't do some things that are), so I guess maybe that's not the best guide for current Mormon praxis.
ecelaya, it sounds to me like Billie does have a testimony. And she's not holding back from the Lord, or refusing to give Him money. She doesn't see the need to give to the church, which is a subtle but significant difference.
I say that if she wants to be baptized, baptize her. Welcome her.
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